Curse

Shiruba Oni · May 19, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Someone already said it :

AoD works great with a fast spike combo (i.e. no lead attacks, 2 off-hands, 2 duals). It doesnt really matter if AoD gets removed after you are done with your combo...(aside from the energy lost, but then everything cost energy...enchantment removal, damage dealing, etc).

Unless the person is specifically targetting you and knows your build, your combo will go through.

Does-it-Matter · May 19, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Greetings,

If you're worried about dis-enchants killing an AoD-build (which it won't, just annoyingly disrupt it for a few seconds), substitute AoD for Shadow of Haste. My Build has been using it since day one.

quickmonty · May 19, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Thanks for actually posting a build, although I don't think apply poison is that useful in a build designed for quick kill and not degen. Just my opinion.

A_Muppet · May 19, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

There is another thread about "assassin hate". Seems like the major complaint on that thread is assassins who think they are warriors and try to stay up front and beat the crap out of their target. So it seems there are two schools of thought. One is to play the assassin like a gimpy warrior, and the other to use the assassins for targets of opportunity such as healers and casters in the rear (teleporting in and out). I'm going to stay with the second mentioned method for now. If I want to tank I'll play my warrior.

Oh, I agree that spellcasters are an assassin's real target. If I wanted to duff a warrior up I'd either get another warrior with riposte or the like, or an illusion mesmer.
To me, assassins are about taking out the supporter characters; they're there to free up the tanks, so the tanks can go have a punch-up with the other warriros while someone else goes deal with the spellcasters.
I agree you're begging to get clobbered attack a warrior, I'm just saying I don't understand why so many people seem to view the teleporter skills as so utterly vital, when I got through the entire game without ever using them. (Except Death's charge, but that was for emergancy healing really)

remmeh · May 19, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

oh but you can't help but laugh when you shatter AoD... he goes flyin'

LaserLight · May 19, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Teleport skills are something of the Signature Feature of the Assassin, Muppet. People use them because they're New and Cool and because they want to find out how best to use them. Currently that's Aura of Displacement and the GPD/Horns/Spider/Twisting combo. Admittedly I've been using the same attack stream to lethal effect without the teleport, but it is harder and I'm only doing it because I haven't yet secured Aura.

Teleportation skills are the Big Advantage Assassins have over their primary competition, that being Warriors. The increased burst mobility (as opposed to enduring mobility, which slightly favors Warriors and their Sprint/Rushes) allows an Assassin to surprise his targets. And don't say it's entirely expected - nobody can be ready all the time to have an Assassin appear from nowhere and begin shredding them. With Dagger Mastery having to work so hard to keep up with axes *kicks Anet*, teleportation is the Other Trick.

That's why people use it, and are hard on guys that disregard it. In their/our defense, the guys that disregard it are also often the guys that play like a naked Warrior and assume that sheer 'hardcorebadass' factor from being an ub3r l33t $!n will keep them alive. Thus, we crack on them over it.

sinican · May 19, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

PvE and PvP play of the assassin are different...

in PvP most casters know that the assassin is coming for them... thus the need for shadowing by the assassin to get in there quick and get out or just to simply play cat and mouse with the warriors..

In PvE though the need for shaddowing isn't really there.. again not as long as the tank plays their part meaning they call their targets and agro... casters will agro on them as well allowing the assassing to either attack the called target or go strait for the casters... it only takes a few seconds for an asn to take out them casters expecially if initially targets are called by the war so others are slamming that target...

i hate groups that blame the asn because the war doesn't know how to tank... and groups that don't know how to call targets or even attack those calls... a distratd target is as good as dead for an asn... especiallially ones that are moving (100% critical on moving targets)

then again casters are an asn's bane as well considering the asn doesnt have any stances other than and elite that stops casters from slaming AoE spells knockdowns and degens on asn's

the asn can be a crucial member to any group...

I have a harder time finding good tanks than i do good asn's anymore and thats a fact..

Tank=meat shield
Assassin= dmg dealer...

so someone needs to give some oportunity to the asn to get in there and deal damage without taking to much of it

Shendaar · May 19, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

So ..... staying at the front and beating the crap out of your target is the mission of the assassin? Why not just make a warrior?

(Beat me to it, Kitty

)

Because sins do more damage? Or atleast they get it out faster. And just because I am at the front doesn't mean I am tanking, just need to be careful not to draw all the aggro and leave some for the others. The difference is my build was made so I could stay at front, even when attacked ... most classes can do that with a proper selection of skills. The difference is while the other sin in the party is teleporting around or waiting for AoD to recharge so he can get his combo out, I'll be at the front still dealing damage.

Again, I am not saying that AoD is not good, I have used it in both PvE and PvP and I know how to use it and how useful it can be. But personnaly, I like to keep the pressure high on my enemy and AoD does not help me do that. Sure I can achieve that with a warrior, but I like the fact that sins do not have to rely on adrenaline, which allow me to start dealing lots of damage right away.

moriz · May 22, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

actually, the assassin does the same amount of damage as a warrior. it's only the damage curve over time is different: the assassin starts strong and sharply tapers off. the warrior starts weak and grows first slowly, then rapidly over time. of course, you can combine the two and have the damage spikes of each fill in the "down time" of the other for deadly effect, but the "multi-layered" pressure of a shadowstepping assassin cannot be matched by any other class.

A_Muppet · May 22, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Teleport skills are something of the Signature Feature of the Assassin, Muppet. People use them because they're New and Cool and because they want to find out how best to use them. Currently that's Aura of Displacement and the GPD/Horns/Spider/Twisting combo. Admittedly I've been using the same attack stream to lethal effect without the teleport, but it is harder and I'm only doing it because I haven't yet secured Aura.

Teleportation skills are the Big Advantage Assassins have over their primary competition, that being Warriors. The increased burst mobility (as opposed to enduring mobility, which slightly favors Warriors and their Sprint/Rushes) allows an Assassin to surprise his targets. And don't say it's entirely expected - nobody can be ready all the time to have an Assassin appear from nowhere and begin shredding them. With Dagger Mastery having to work so hard to keep up with axes *kicks Anet*, teleportation is the Other Trick.

That's why people use it, and are hard on guys that disregard it. In their/our defense, the guys that disregard it are also often the guys that play like a naked Warrior and assume that sheer 'hardcorebadass' factor from being an ub3r l33t $!n will keep them alive. Thus, we crack on them over it.

Yea, I see where you're coming from. I prefer just to do blinding power for a warrior (I find the evasion defense skills assassins have are just too unreliable [cough]criticaldefenses[cough]) or if it's a spellcaster either rip him apart quickly of do beguiling haze to 'em. As I said, I went through the entire game without a teleporting skill (and this was mainly with henchies except for certain missions) and I did well enough. Hell, I go to the fissure without teleporting skills and my assassin seems to be alright.

Silent Kitty · May 22, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

but the "multi-layered" pressure of a shadowstepping assassin cannot be matched by any other class.

Actually, my W/A does that too. Much more effective, and much longer than an assassin. When the assassin teleports out, because he is taking to much damage, my warrior stays an other round or two, taking much more pressure away from the party as well.
I have an assassin, but I noticed it is actually a much better secondary profession for a warrior. The best assassin is a warrior with teleport abilities

chrystianek · May 22, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

pvp asn with teleport skill>>>>>>>>>>>>all pvp asns without it(same thing in pve btw)
especialy if im asn/necro

lightblade · May 22, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrystianek

pvp asn with teleport skill>>>>>>>>>>>>all pvp asns without it(same thing in pve btw)
especialy if im asn/necro

Not the same in PvE!

I played through all the story missions (although mostly standard award) with my Assassin with no teleporting skill what so ever, and with all henchmen too (because nobody want assassin in their group)

Assassin's 70 armor is enough to take a lot of punishment.

Beat_Go_Stick · May 23, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Guru

The Campfire
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.

If you think you can't be an effective Assassin in PvE without a teleport, then you just don't understand how the AI works.

If you are talking about PvP without specifying that you are doing so, you are in the wrong board

The exception to this is when fighting Afflicted. Those things rock Assassins and you need to be able to get away in a flash if 2 of them happen to simultaneously explode right next to you.

Desbreko · May 25, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

As long as you know when to back off and shake aggro back onto the tank, an assassin is perfectly capable of taking out multiple backline casters in PvE--without teleportation spells. Heck, I even take out warriors sometimes while they're busy beating on other people.

My current Moebius Strike build is built around that very fact, and I frequently tear up entire backlines by myself while everyone else is tanking/killing the front line warriors and assassins. I simply use Dash to get in after the tank has aggroed--being under the effect of a speed boost lessens your chance of drawing aggro--tear up a few casters, and Dash back out if I start taking too many hits.

Sure, I could do the same thing easier with Aura of Displacement, but not nearly as often. If I get a good chain going, I can cycle through Unsuspecting Strike, Golden Lotus Strike, Wild Strike, Death Blossom, and Moebius Strike pretty much indefinitely because of Moebius' skill recharging. And in PvE, where you're facing many large groups of enemies, the ability to kill multiple targets without much downtime is extremely valuable. Being able to do high damage to multiple targets is more valuable than being able to spike a single target at the cost of downtime.

samifly · May 25, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I like the description of assassins as melee mesmers

A_Muppet · May 25, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

I like the description of assassins as melee mesmers

Funny you should say that, I mentioned to my brother offhand a day into factions that assassins were a 'thinking man's warrior' like a mesmer was a 'thinking man's ele'.

Miakoda · May 25, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

"I go to the fissure without teleporting skills and my assassin seems to be alright."

I would wager that is because you are a half decent player..

As for Afflicted damage to an Assassin and the use of Shadow Stepping, Why bother? this is the whole point. Get in and out before the Afflicted damage kills you? why not just change your build to tank more and help the group kill faster? why not just drop the Assassin and take a Warrior or Ranger or other ranged stay out of Afflicted AoE damage spam class, Even a ranged Assassin build.

I went through the whole pve game using a bow and henchies, no Shadow Stepping at all, but I guess those who don't use shadow stepping are brainless wonders who can't see past the coolness of warping around..

Or what Desbreko said.

Rainstorm13 · May 29, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Isn't the entire point of the assassin to get in and get out quick, while unleashing a combo? Heck, you may not kill the target you go after, but it can distrac the enemy monk enough to focus healing to the targeted enemy. This allows the other damage dealers to concentrate their firepower and possibly kill someone.

What I'm saying is that the role of an Assassin is not to kill a squishie target (although that is usually the goal and greatly helps when it happens) but to distract the enemy monks and allow for the killing of another target.

AlbinoChocobo · May 30, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

assassins were a 'thinking man's warrior' like a mesmer was a 'thinking man's ele'.

Warriors already are a thinking man's warrior. As a PVE monk (mainly), I have yet to meet an assassin as described here. Do you mean assassins can actually move out of harm's way _before_ I have to spam 'my energy is 2 of 50' ???